Is it possible to be an MRA and feminist at the same time?
I think this is tricky to answer because there’s far more to each side of the spectrum here than it simply being feminism is for women’s rights, and the MRM being for men’s rights. The fact is ideology is a major driver behind each movement, probably more so with feminism than with the MRM. However, it appears that even the MRM is becoming tainted with its own counter-ideology known as the red pill theory. Either way though my answer is yes, at least in the sense that maybe sometimes our ‘opponents’ may offer something of value, and because I don’t feel it’s fair to only focus on the welfare of one segment of society.This is one of the reasons why I tend to call myself an egalitarian or progressive MRA. While I don’t agree with feminists on everything, I try not to equate all feminists as being intersectional feminists or male-bashers. I still think that feminists are right about many things such as men being their own worst enemy. I hold Michael Kimmel in high regards and think he’s on to something when he talks about the boy education crisis because his own observations reflect my own empirical observation that education is seen as being girly (though I think there’s more to this crisis than just that).I don’t agree with everything that feminists push for or claim, but I think their general mantra would lead to a better outcome for males of all ages than this red pill nonsense could. The fact is the catalyst for red pill theory is evolutionary psychology, and in all irony it’s the MRM’s own achilles heel. Feminism is simply the by-product of the structural functionalism of most societies whether you agree with feminists or not.Not all MRAs adhere to the red pill paradigm (even though I think there’s some truth to it) and some of us do realize that derogatory terms such as ‘mangina’ is an insult to many men too. I didn’t last too long on ‘MRM’ forums for calling out this BS. Some MRAs do solely focus on the issues facing boys and men (only to be attacked anyways), but I will admit that the majority of those who take part in MRA-dominated forums have no viable solutions to the problems they claim to care about, and such forums tend to be contaminated with PUA/tradcon baloney.
Feminists: Would you date a MRA?
Maybe but that depends from person to person. I am neither a feminist or MRA so I am open to both in certain cases.
Did you face a backlash from feminists for being an MRA? Did you face a backlash from MRAs for being a feminist?
A2A “Did you face a backlash from feminists for being an MRA? Did you face a backlash from MRAs for being a feminist?”The first half doesn’t apply to me. As to the second half, “sort of”?My only real direct interaction with MRAs has been on Quora. On aggregate, my content on the subject can be summarized as:- MRAs make some very good points, worthy of attention - MRAs make some dubious points, worthy of reconsideration - MRAs make some ridiculous points, worthy of ridicule (I try not to do any actual ridiculing, but occasionally I fall short of myself)On aggregate, MRA responses to my comments tend to be:- Feminist ideology is man-hating and gender biased, rather than being about equality- Men have it *WAY* worse than women in society- Feminism has run its course, as inequality issues have basically all been rectifiedI acknowledge that the sample sizing of my experience is low, but the question is “did you face a backlash”, so I can only speak to that experience, however minimal. I’ll also note that there are MRAs on this site who have been more even-handed (and non-hostile) in our exchanges, and that while I don’t fully agree with them I’m at least able to have civil discourse – not often productive, but at least civil.I’m not sure exactly how I’m viewed by Quora MRAs, much less how I would be by MRAs in general, given that I’m a feminist who is male. I’d believe that something akin to bewilderment is an option, and also that I might be viewed as some sort of “traitor”. Tough to say. As I mentioned above, I definitely think there are areas in which MRAs raise some very valid issues that should absolutely be addressed, but there’s also a lot of content that I think is (at best) ill-considered.If the Flat Earth Society were deeply also concerned about income inequality, I would support any advocacy that they do regarding that issue. But ultimately, I can’t support the Flat Earth Society as an institution (/movement/whatever) because it’s overarching output isn’t something that I agree with.(To be 100% clear: I’m not at all trying to equate my “needs improvement” views on MRAs with my “what the f*** is wrong with you people??!!” views on the FES. It was just the first group that came to mind that fit the general example I was trying to make.)
What MRA issues do MRAs not blame on women or feminism?
Most issues are not blamed on feminism. MRAs understand that many issues men face came way before feminism. However, some issues are thought to be made worse by feminism. I will try to compile a list of such topics: 1: The disposable male is an issue often brought up by MRAs that has never been linked to feminism (or women). The blame (if you can call it that) is with nature. However, the MRA does believe that feminism (and society as a whole, including other men) peddles this male disposability nonsense. 2: The draft. Although many feminists like to straw-man the MRA position on the draft as an arbitrary attack on feminism, it's not. At least to the extent that feminism is not to blame for the draft. The draft is only brought up to show a startling example of male oppression and female privilege, not to blame feminism. It is to counter the feminist claim that we live in a society that oppresses women for men's benefit. 3: Male suicide rates. As an MRA, I myself highly doubt that feminism has much to do with male suicide. However, I do think that the issue is being ignored and sometimes feminism does interfere with getting the message out there. In totality, feminism is not BLAMED for men committing suicide. 4: Female criminal leniency. This was a problem far before feminism came along. It's due to a male urge to protect women. It's a well documented phenomenon. However, once again, while feminism is not blamed for the problem, it is noted that they do make it worse while peddling false statistics of rape, and under-representing female perpetrators of various crimes. Anyway, that's all I can think of at the moment, but I think you'll find that most things the MRA take issue with are not blamed on feminism. Feminism only makes them worse, or ignores them. The only real reason the MRA picks on feminism so much is because feminism constantly tries to silence Men's Rights Groups by labeling them as "misogynistic." With that in mind, feminism is more like an accomplice to many issues, not a cause. Finally, women are never blamed. Most MRAs are aware of both gender's roles in many problems men face.
Can I be both anti mra and anti feminist because I think both groups advocate for superiority?
As Lexa said, you can be against whatever you want. You can also believe whatever you want about whatever group. I find it curious that you say this. When I go to MRA sites I see all kinds of things about how horrible women are, how women deserve to be raped, how men are superior, etc. Clearly you've seen the same. Incidentally, while I personally have encountered some people who claim to be feminists who say they hate men and that all men are awful, the vast majority of feminists I know don't think men are the problem but rather than underlining culture of sexism and some individual men. So while there are numerous, misogynist groups like "Gamergate" who specifically target and harass women, I have never seen anything like that from feminists. Something I learned in feminism 101[1] was that sexism hurts men as well. How anyone can look at a website like Everyday Feminism and think that it's advocating for superiority is beyond me. If you think that feminism is advocating for superiority, you're either being deliberately obtuse, suffering from a healthy dose of confirmation bias, or just looking in the wrong places. Bottom line, anyone who is advocating for superiority of a specific gender is not a feminist, no matter what they say. You can't say the same for the MRA. Believe whatever you want and be against whatever you want, but don't move the goalposts in order to set up a strawman so you can feel justified in being anti-feminist. Footnotes[1] http://Not an actual thing
Why do feminists hate female MRA's so much?
they hate all MRAs. * most MRAs don't support the idea of financial abortion. just sayin'
My son just told me he's an MRA. As a feminist, how do I explain to him that it's just a phase and he'll get over it?
I think that delegitimizing your son’s viewpoint by simply calling it a “phase” is a bad approach to understanding him.Now, I do not know what motivating your son to becoming a Men’s Rights Activist. It could have been stemmed from anti-feminism propaganda from hate groups, or it could be a legitimate concern for men’s rights in things like low male participation in teaching professions in primary and secondary education or even false rape accusations.Since possible reasons for being a MRA can be several, many of them being legitimate and reasonable causes, it is essential that you figure out what motivated him to become a MRA in the first place before you take any other action.Threatening or belittling your son will have a negative impact on future conversion regarding this issue and may push him into actually believing in anti-feminist agendas. He may think, “Oh, women and feminists don’t care about men’s rights and just belittle us for raising our concerns over it.”This is NOT what you want your son to think. Ever.Explain to him that feminism is just as concerned about men’s rights as women’s rights, after all, feminism stands for equal treatment regardless of sex. Also explain to him that feminists who claim that men’s rights are unimportant don’t actually understand the true principles of feminism and its core value of equality.As a fellow feminist like yourself, I once mistakenly thought that feminism is bad because it only cares about women’s rights. I corrected my skewed understanding through researching about feminism and its movements, and I believe every feminists should do the same. If we understand ourselves and the common ideology behind it better, it can reduce misconceptions about feminism and bring the MRAs and feminists together, because in reality, both group fight for same things.In South Korea, this did not happen, so there’s many misconceptions about feminism and feminists, leading to conflicts between Feminists In Name Only (misandrists) and anti-feminists (misogynists) all over the Korean Internet.Don’t let your son fall into such misconception. Find out what caused him into becoming a MRA, explain the true virtue of feminism to him, and you’ll see that now you can both see eye to eye and find both of you more mature.