Catholics, what do you think of the Quiverfull movement?
The Quiverfull movement is very abusive to woman, forcing them to bear more children than they are physically able to.
How do you feel about the Quiverfull Movement?
If you don't know what I'm talking about, it's an evangelical Christian phenomenon that is catching with American families and even families outside of the US. It is mainly about having lots and lots of kids because "they are a precious gift from God". The "quiverfull" part comes from "Psalm 127:3-5, where many children are metaphorically referred to as a quiver full of arrows". In this movement, all forms of birth control are shunned, including family planning. Here is an example of a Quiverfull family, the Duggars: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWLmfOipQ... Personally, I find it to be disgusting and greedy. I don't hate the kids of course, but I know that there is no way in hell that all of these kids are going to be able to attend college. The parents are not billionaires. In fact, they are just getting by with Dad's real estate job. The kids are very sheltered; they are all home schooled. Their world is so different from the outside world that I doubt that they will be able to fit in when or if they leave. The kids are expected to take care of their younger siblings. This is not a kid's job. Kids should not have to be little parents, they should be playing and learning about themselves and the world. And worst of all, I do not believe that these children can possibly be getting the individual attention that they each need. The family's life centers around babies, babies, babies. The mother needs to stop pooping out babies and love the children that she already has. And you know what? Children copy their parents. I bet that these children are going to grow up to be Quiverfull parents and start the cycle all over again. If the movement gains too much popularity, we're going to have entire armies of "God's precious gifts" who don't know what to do with their lives because they have been to sheltered and lack the money needed to attend college. Here's a Wiki entry: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quiverfull
If you grew up in a very large Christian Quiverfull family, such as the Duggars for example, would you rather be one of the oldest kids, middle, or the youngest? Would it depend on the hypothetical family's financial status?
Our family was not “quiverful”, but I am the oldest of 11, and was raised in a conservative family.I think each place has its pros and cons, but in my case, there were different ones for each one.-Parents were just learning as they started out. There was a lot of parent experimentation that occured as always, but a little more extreme with the conservative bent.I was not allowed to dress in most modern, culturally appropriate clothing after I was about nine years old. My younger siblings did not until they moved out.I experienced more cultural awareness and exposure to outside culture beyond the conservative world, since I was the oldest.I worked harder taking care of the other kids, as the oldest, where the younger ones didn’t have that kind of responsibility.We had more money when I was younger, as the responsibilities mounte and expenses with more children, but also, my dad chose to move to the conservative communities where less work was available.So, pros and cons. I am not sure I would change my status as the oldest.
Are Quiverfull Christians a threat to democracy? After generations of exponential population, could they overwhelm ballots and institute theocracy?
Wow, I had to read the wikipedia article on this deadly threat to even know it was there. The answer is no, don’t worry about it.There are plenty of religious movements that encourage large families. When my orthodox Jewish aunt passed away, she had considerably more than 100 living descendants, and a lot more have been born since then. As Warren Buffett tells us, compounding works.But trees don’t grow to the sky, algae doesn’t cover the earth, and that apocryphal king never delivered on the promise of giving his loyal servant a chess board with one grain of rice on the first square, two on the second, four on the third, etcetera.The Quiverfullians will get tired of it, or they’ll run out of money, or the kids will rebel, or some other line from the Bible will strike their fancy, and they’ll remain a small, eccentric sect. Worry about something else.
Quiverfull, anyone?
They are not racists at all. They encourage black people and other minority groups to multiply and have babies...whereas Catholics go into African countries and try and stop African people from breeding! Quiverfull families who have received press attention The Arndt Family - The family was featured on the January 28 edition of The Learning Channel's series Kids by the Dozen. Rick Arndt is president of Safe At Home Ministries. He and his wife Cathy have fourteen children.[53][55][56] The Bortel Family - The family was featured in a November 13, 2006, article about Quiverfull in Newsweek magazine. David and Suzanne Bortel run Quiverfull.com and moderate The Quiverfull Digest. They have ten children.[44][57] The Carpenter Family - The family was featured on the January 3, 2006, ABC News Nightline segment, "The More the Holier?", about the Quiverfull movement. Husband Ken is a Christian filmmaker and music video producer for some of Nashville's biggest names. He and his wife Devon have eight children.[45][58] The Duggar Family - The family has been featured numerous times on The Learning Channel. Husband Jim Bob Duggar is a former Arkansas state legislator and former Republican candidate for the District 35 Arkansas state Senate seat. He and his wife Michelle have seventeen children, and are currently expecting an eighteenth.[53][59][60][61] The Heppner Family - The family was featured on the January 22 and 23 editions of The Learning Channel's series Kids by the Dozen. The family owns a homeschooling resource company. DuWayne and his wife Miriam have seventeen children.[62][53][55][63] The Jeub Family - The family was featured on the January 29 and 30 editions of The Learning Channel's series Kids by the Dozen. Chris Jeub is president of Training Minds Ministry. He and his wife Wendy have fourteen children.[64][46][65][55] The Long Family - The family was featured on RTV6 of Indianapolis, IN on May 3 rd, 02007. Jim Long works with Eli Lilly and Co.'s global manufacturing group, while Debby Long home-schools the children. They have 11 children. [66] The Sams Family - Michael and Debbie, who have nine children, own the Full Quiver Farms line of organic cheeses, produced from their organic farm in Kemp, Texas.[67]
Is the Quiverfull religion dangerous for women?
Yes, although "Quiverfull" is a religious movement, rather than an outright religion itself. I personally abhor the movement for a number of reasons, and you just gave me one more. 1. To me, it's just an excuse to treat women as second-class citizens and baby factories, which is just disgusting in this modern world. 2. Overpopulation. 7 billion people on this planet. We need more birth control and family planning, rather than uninhibited breeding from people who just can't keep their legs closed. 3. Cost. Last I checked, it cost at least $100,000 to raise just one child from birth to adulthood. Now do the math for the 20 kids these breeders are having. That makes TWO MILLION to raise twenty kids from birth to adulthood. Who the hell has that sort of money in this day and age, especially with the economy in the toilet? Certainly explains why these breeders are on TV. They need to resort to being a national freakshow of plop 'till you drop to pay their bills. 4. The above medical reasons stated by a doctor. As I despise these folks, I don't watch their show, so I had no idea how old this crazy woman is. She is definitely putting herself and future offspring at risk. Many health classes will state that the older you get, the greater the risk for complications in childbirth there are. The best years are before 35. After that, it gets sketchy, let alone once you hit menopausal range like she is. I agree with the doctor. Twenty kids is just insane in today's world. This is the 21st century, not the 16th. We have modern medicine that not only allows women to survive childbirth, but allows children themselves to easily survive until adulthood. There is absolutely no reasonable need to have that many children like in the past, where women often died in childbirth and many diseases that are now wiped out killed numerous children before their teens. While I find that family incredibly selfish to do such a thing, they have definitely fulfilled the "go forth and multiply" in spades. She should have the last child and then get her frickin' tubes tied. She's done more than her part in overpopulating this planet with bratty offspring. She should just leave it alone and focus on RAISING these children instead of making more of them. Ugh!
Why is the religious Quiverfull/Patriarchy so anti-woman?
The Quiverfull movement wants women to be married and birth a lot of children for this war of light and darkness. Doesn't God have Angels to do that? These groups may claim to love women and want to protect their daughters hearts from dating and such because they are 'born with souls and tender feelings? I have nothing against women working as homemakers or having lots of kids, Heck I'm the youngest of 7 kids. But this group thinks its sexist for parents to 'allow their teenage daughters to work in restaurants or encourage them to enlist in the military. Their parents throw them to strangers to be abused and because it happens to everyone they don't even notice' WTHeck? But what about the godly women who never married and led countries/armies; Deborah the Judge, Hulda the Prophetess, the Virgin Mary, Joan of Arc, Queen Elizabeth and Catherine the Great?
Why do Christian fundamentalists like the Duggars have large families?
The Duggars belong to a fundamentalist movement called “Quiverfull[1]” which comes from this verse:Psalm 127:3–5 New International Version (NIV)3 Children are a heritage from the Lord,offspring a reward from him.4 Like arrows in the hands of a warriorare children born in one’s youth.5 Blessed is the manwhose quiver is full of them.Along with the belief that women are nothing but babymakers[2], and that contraception kills babies,[3] this translates into a fervent belief that family planning should be left to god.It's also compounded by the idea of a “Joshua generation.” Joshua was the prophet who led the descendants of the Israelites who escapes slavery in Egypt into the promised land.By their presence in the land, they brought some of the heathens to their religion, and killed the rest.The Quiverfull parents are trying to raise a Joshua generation. They see their dozens of kids as a holy uprising, as a religious calling.They are terrified of the “worldliness” of their country, so they (generally) hide away, in low population areas, and only socialize with other fundamentalists.They homeschool[4] their children so they can control everything their kids learn.Their families are so huge they can't parent all of them effectively, so they assign their weaned babies to older kids to raise.They only allow adult-chaperoned courting. They don't kiss before the altar. In some cases, they don't permit saying “I love you.” until the altar.At the core, they do all of this[5] - and have their multitudes of children - out of fear and religious fanaticism.Of course, their religious fanaticism is often fueled by fear, as well, so really they do it all out of fear.Footnotes[1] No Longer Quivering[2] Quiverfull Daughters: The Making of a Helpmeet[3] Quoting Quiverfull: Birth Control Pills Kill Babies?[4] Barely Literate? How Christian Fundamentalist Homeschooling Hurts Kids[5] The Homeschool Apostates
How do "Quiverfull" families deal with the gay sons they are making?
I know there is no accepted understanding of the mechanism of the well-documented fraternal birth order effect on male sexual orientation, but I'm worried about the Quiverfull movement's treatment of the gay sons that they are more likely to have than the rest of us. How does that movement, which promotes the spread of fundamentalist Christianity via superior breeding power (quantity, not quality) justify their increased likelihood to have gay kids who, I imagine, they might be more likely to emotionally or physically abuse?
Christians who believe in chaperones when dating ... does this set couples up for failed marriages?
There are some Christian communities who are very strict with chaperones when it comes to dating. Jehovah's Witnesses practice dating with chaperones. Christians of the quiver-full movement, such as the Duggar family, practice dating with chaperones. Most traditional Catholics who reject the changes from the Second Vatican Council (1962-1965) practice dating with chaperones. These small groups of Christian communities believe that dating with chaperones has nothing to do with age. If you're a minor or an adult, every couple should have a chaperone until the day of marriage. Though this practiced has been criticized by most modern Christians, saying that this sort of behavior sets couples up for failed marriages. Why do they say this?